The Meadow Makers' Network Forum

Hi There,
I have former grazing land which has recently been planted with woodland trees.
Around the perimeter and through the rides and glade there are huge
numbers of dock plants,Scotch thistles, bramble and nettles.
Should I let them go rampant as they would do in nature, or should I intervene to prevent them taking over?
I guess if this was a re-wilding project I would just let it all happen, but it would mean competing-out
everything else.
I'd appreciate your ideas.
Thanks,
Viv Williamson
Withleigh

Viv - my feeling is that if they are not hurting then these plants shouldn't be an issue in new woodland creation, as the trees will soon out-compete them as they are not shade tolerant. My only hesitation would be with the thistle - by Scotch, do you actually mean Spear thistle? Their seeds spread very easily by air, so particularly if you have neighbours nearby you might need to control them.

Hi Viv, Digging out docks is a pretty thankless task, and if they and the others will be eventually shaded out, then surely count your blessings. In the meantime you may get the most beautiful and brilliant dock beetle on the docks, and you may get black caps nesting in the bramble and lovely butterflies from the nettles, and feeding on the brambles.

Depending on the extent of your land, I would suggest that you think about deadheading the docks and thistles at the perimeters, before they drop their seed, if you can get at them, and removing the flower and seed heads, as they will ripen even after cutting. As Steve said, your neighbours may be very pleased and relieved if you keep your docks and thistles under control at the boundaries. You will also save yourself hours of work in the coming years, if you stop them seeding near your proposed new wild flower meadow. (What an exciting new project!)

I guess you will be topping or strimming anyway to keep your glades and rides open, so you might also like to consider cutting the nettles in sunny areas to half height about now in May, as butterflies like to lay their eggs on young growth.

Also to be aware that if you have plastic tree shelters, they will need checking despite your brambles, though your brambles should discourage any deer from browsing on the young trees, and eventually removing the shelters before they restrict the trees, and split and start fragmenting into the soil. It is easy to forget after a few years have gone by. Habitat Aid have mentioned that they will be selling bio degradable tree shelters. And watch out for squirrels debarking the new trees.

(I love Withleigh.)

Such useful comments! Many thanks for your thoughts. It’s always painful for me as a gardener to leave those vigorous “weeds” alone, but I see the benefits you describe. Nature usually sorts itself out in the long run, but I guess if we want to see results in the short term we have to interfere a bit.
Many thanks again.
Viv

Hello Viv
It sounds like you have a wonderful green space there and you'll enjoy watching the changes as they evolve. You'll find that this is a moving landscape where no one species will dominate. There is always one which will come along and look dominant, only to be budged over by the next species and so on, until you have a mosaic of habitats. However, a little bit of disturbance wouldn't go amiss here and there - for instance you could cut a path through the brambles to create more shapes rather than hacking them all back at once. Definitely get a nice path meandering through if you can, to provide a shorter grass and try to find the sunniest spots for the paths as the butterflies and reptiles will love these. You're looking for differing heights of plants, low to high. Eventually, as mentioned in another reply, the trees will be the dominant species and you may need to manage those if you want light to continue reaching the woodland floor. Good luck and enjoy!

Thanks Ruth. Again, great advice and I’ll certainly bear it in mind as the trees grow. Best wishes,
Viv

Viv - I mentioned cutting nettles by half which provides fresh growth for butterflies' egg laying in June, I got this from the amazing Chris Skinner on the BBC Norfolk Countryside Hour podcast and also from Chris Beardshaw of the Flying Gardener - anyway, today, I found a web of tiny caterpillars on a nettle - probably Peacock - so I don't know if it is this crazy spring or not, certainly the caterpillars are 5 weeks earlier than I've seen them here before - but just to say take my advice with (more of) a pinch of salt - maybe cut only some of the nettles by half in case you too have early caterpillars!

This is another case where you might want to check out which species you actually have. Broad-leaved Dock and Curled Dock are 'injurious weeds' in the UK, but other, less 'weedy' species can also be common in Devon, especially Wood Dock and Clustered Dock. Many other species of dock are much rarer, including Shore Dock, one of the UK's most endangered plants, which is found on a few beaches in South Devon. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -weeds.pdf

Like all weeds, docks are often a symptom of what's going on with your soil, and part of a soil's natural repair process. Docks, especially Broad-leaved, can be a sign of disturbed, nutrient-rich soil, soil compaction, or under- or over- grazing. In particular, the deep roots help to break up and aerate compacted soils. https://www.agricology.co.uk/resources/dock-control.

We seem to have a lot of docks and nettles, particularly where the land has been under pressure in the past.

However we also have an awful lot of sorrel which I read is botanically the same plant as the dock. This isn't going to prove a problem is it? I've got so much spear thistle that getting that under control will take a lifetime I can't see me being able to deal with the sorrel too!

Sorry to hijack your thread but I thought as it was all dock related i'd pop my question here!

Chapplecroft - where did you read that sorrel "is botanically the same plant as the dock"? They are completely different species. Sorrel is a valuable and beautiful meadow plant that is also edible, unlike docks - it does not need to be managed.